Emerald Cuts

Discussion in 'Moissanite Forum' started by Angel, Feb 16, 2018.

  1. talk-admin

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    Lol - of course it is. All these places are all ordering from the same 2 cutters in China. We can get the same thing and offer our normal 40 day return policy vs all this nonsense I'm seeing about 'only with ring' or 'no return' stuff.

    They won't be as nice as Amora, but if you are just after reasonable emerald cut moissanite and in specific sizes, we can order for you and I guarantee we can offer better pricing and *way* better return policy. I've emailed both cutters and will let you know what pricing we can offer to compare.

    Best regards,
    Less
     
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  2. blushfiend

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    Less, from what I know with August Vintage the stones are cut to his parameters since his stones/diamonds are branded and proprietary so I don't see how he could order generics. And with another vendor I don't know where they get the stones from but they do select different flavors of cut and eyeballing it for the client - so there's a level of QC, as others who have ordered from the big names have claimed there's been variations of cut and having to return it. These are the only two I know more about, I don't know about the rest of the vendors and how they select / cut their stones.

    I agree with you on the odd policy of using their settings only. The no return policy is a big pain, but I am unsure if it's because as a custom cut (since they can cut to different length to width ratios and different color ranges) and as a small proprietor there's no recourse on their end for returns. This seems to be a fairly common practice with custom cut sizes, although now that LAD is offering a return policy it does throw a spanner in the works...

    Would Amora be offering custom cuts anytime soon? The ability to select the preferred color and length to width ratios is great. For example for me I like big stones but dislike DEF colors, and am limited to checking restocks in the hopes of a stone in my size and color range one day, which may or may not happen.
     
    #22 blushfiend, Feb 20, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2018
  3. Angel

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    Less, I was hoping for your input! I wondered myself if the EC’s with windmills were possibly coming from the same cutters. I know with the regular emerald cuts on the market without windmills some of them are coming from the same manufacturers for example moissaniteco informed me that their brand moissanite was from the same manufacturer as the NEO. So I’m like are all these stones coming from the same few places and just being rebranded?! All claiming that theirs is the BEST on the market.

    I actually ordered a moissanite directly from China a while back. It was a colorless EC with windmills. Not sure if it is from the same cutters that you are referring to. I didn’t love it because it looked sort of plasticity to me and also something about the cut seemed off. I sent it back and exchanged for a crushed ice radiant cut that I later sold. They wouldn’t give me a refund only exchange. I’ll post the video from Instagram of the stone they sent me. I also have a grey EC from them that I like a lot better but I haven’t set it or anything. Below are the 3 stones I got from them.







    I do like the grey one just for maybe a right hand ring one day.

    Do you think this is the same cutters that you are referring to that these other jewelers are using? To me the quality appears to be way better than this particular China company that I ordered from. But I am interested in your opinion and the prices you could get me. And I still haven’t ruled the Amora Krupps out especially if all the others are the same and like the ones I’ve bought from China. I really love the cut in the Amora. I’d just prefer a more retangular or elongated shape.
     
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  4. Angel

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    I’m sorry I am meaning that the quality of Schubach, JYB, and the others that we have been discussing appear to be wayyyy better than this particular China manufacturer that I ordered from. Especially that first stone I received was very low quality cut. The material was very white to my eye but just not of good quality. And I’m by no means an expert.
     
  5. Angel

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    @blushfiend I just sent August Vintage a message. Hope to hear back from him soon.
     
  6. talk-admin

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    Hi Blushfiend,
    What I meant is that most of these are ordering stock goods from those 2 places and from their inventory...so for a fast turnaround they are going to get the same thing (i.e. emerald with the same l:w ratio, b/c that is their 'default' emerald.
    For AV or others - you can definitely ask them to do custom cuts to your spec (though how off from spec it is is a bit random) so that's what's happening there.

    We ordered a couple Moissanite last year to review from these cutters, and the cut was reasonable, (not great, but better than Forever One), the polish was not very good - or as the diamond lab put it, "it sucked".
    But price is lower so it really boils down to what you want - kind of a good/better/best situation.

    Most people ordering Amora's are ordering for engagement rings, so they want the best. For fashion rings, then maybe you don't need/want that level of perfection and good or better works just fine.

    That's why I'm thinking maybe we should start offering a 'better' Moissanite option to complement the Amora which would remain our 'best' brand, esp after reading about all these rather crazy return policies.

    Re: variations of cut - you are going to see a wide range of variation even from the same cutter b/c they don't review their angles, and clearly don't review their polish in general. So some form of QC would still be vital - look at Charles and Colvard, it's all over the map.

    By contrast when we make Amora, we are running it in the Sarin HD system to verify the final result before we send it to the lab, who then runs it in the OGI HD system they have. So that's why the quality is very consistent. GIA uses the Sarin HD system by the way for diamond grading.

    My main point though - there are only a few places that actually manufacture - the rest are all reselling and putting their own brand on that. Now as noted, some are spec'ing their own cuts but as far as default goods you are going to basically get the same thing b/c it's coming from the same place with a brand added on it.

    Hope that helps!
    Less
     
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  7. blushfiend

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    @Angel , you are killing it with your research! I think you are more of an expert than you think.
     
  8. talk-admin

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    Hi Angel,
    These two places both offer varying grades of quality, with appropriate price changes - both for rough and cut and polish quality.
    So you are right that the quality is different, and so is the pricing.
    Thus, what you are seeing from Schubachs, etc. would be their higher quality.

    Again, though, Schubachs, and all these other jewelers etc. did not setup a cutting facility and start cutting their own goods. That's why some of the places want two weeks - b/c they will take your order, pass the order back to the Chinese cutter who then cuts it in that two weeks and ships it.
    That's also why some places have a 'no return' policy, b/c from my limited talks with them, the two cutters refuse to take back any stones - for sure if it's a custom cut....so it's a one way deal and the jeweler is reflecting that.

    The grey one you noted is when during growth, excess carbon was deposited so it can't be sold at the same price as their whiter grade.

    Hope that helps,
    Less
     
  9. talk-admin

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    Hi Angel,
    I can't guarantee that I know all the cutters out there but there are not many that can do it and I am aware of most. So in general, yes, most of the moissanite all comes from the same few places.

    They then manufacture/sell to a lot of jewelers (basically if you are selling gems, then you've gotten 2-4 emails from their spam barrage offering to anyone who might remotely be interested), and the jewelers all put their own brand on it.

    Looking at the emerald you posted, that was the style of emerald cut they showed me (in photos, didn't get one). Let me see if I still have it in my email and will post so you can see.

    The plasticy aspect is likely b/c the polish was poor, that can create a hazy look instead of crisp. We saw a similar effect on the two we had the diamond lab grade, though not as bad as in your photo.

    Re:No refund but you can exchange... that's why I think you are finding a lot of these jewelers have very strict or even no return policy, b/c they are just ordering from the same place, and can't return for cash if you opt not to proceed.

    I've emailed both places to get some pricing and photos, so let's see what they come up with.

    Best regards,
    Less
     
  10. blushfiend

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    Thanks Less for the detailed information, it's very useful and good to know. Agree that some vendors seem to get it stock from suppliers. I have seen stock photos of stones from cutters used and listed by a number of vendors on Etsy and other sites.

    I think most consumers who are considering Amora or Moissanite is not as a cocktail / fashion ring, but as an e-ring (and to a lesser extent, a travel ring).
    My guess is that many were considering Amora, but for the longest time there's been production issues until recently, so some consumers decided to explore moissanite options, especially after C&C's patent expiration and the use of 4H SiC material that does not have the yellow/green tint, giving them more choices.

    Given the high refractive index of Amora, does that mean that it will also be a more firey stone? As Angel mentioned, the lack of real life photos and videos does give pause, as even with a return period, it's nice to have a better idea of how it performs before purchase.

    Looking forward to the information from the suppliers.
     
    #30 blushfiend, Feb 20, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2018
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  11. Angel

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    @blushfiend thank you so much! My husband thinks I have turned into a complete emerald cut nut! This obsession has been going on for about 3 years now I cannot begin to imagine how much time I’ve spent scouring the Internet for photos and info. And driving jewelers crazy with my millions of questions!

    I think Less is right about a lot of the custom cuts coming from the cutters in China. I’ve found a lot of these moissanite suppliers on instagram and it does seem that the quality varies. When I ordered mine, they asked If I was a jeweler. You can get any custom cut you can think of and most any color. I came across another one I found just tonight.


    I’ve also ordered the cheap eBay moissanite from India just to check out. They aren’t even close to being on their game like China is though. They are a lot worse in quality and color.

    But anyways with that being said I don’t know if that is the case for ALL of the Jewelers out there. We will probably never really know but that’s also what worries me about ordering from some of these places of the reality is that we could just go directly to the Chinese cutters and order ourselves and pay less you know what I mean? This is why I reached out because I was starting to realize and suspect this was going on the more and more I dug for the “best” moissanite. I too am curious to see what Less comes back with after hearing from the manufacturers he reached out to. And I’d love to hear more about future options or plans for the Amora Gem. I just don’t want to wait years though I still check the BTD site daily but haven’t seen anything near the size I’m wanting. And then there’s the fact that I truly love the more elongated shape so idk I felt like I was getting somewhere but Less kind of busted my bubble haha but that was kind of what I suspected was going on. Also looked more into August Vintage. Looks like so far they have the more chunkier ratios just like the Amora.
     
  12. Angel

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    @blushfiend i did find me a friend on Instagram that finally got her Amora Krupps. She’s posted some photos and videos that I’ll share with you. I’m waiting to see what she sets it in. She swears by the Amora Gem and waited 6 years for her stone. SIX YEARS!










    These are the only photos I have been able to find besides the thread that Less shared with us.
     
  13. talk-admin

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    Great feedback Blushfiend, much appreciated (re: lack of real life photos and videos). Yes, a huge factor in that was all the production problems we went through for the past two years. All the cuts are now underway but that's only been since December that I could say we had 100% production going.
    Thus, we will work on the real life photos and videos - already did some earlier for the Eternity, and will make more for all the cuts.

    Here's the Eternity 'real life' video (first one) for reference:


    And there's more coming (restaurant, cloudy day, etc) so we could do the same thing but with the Krupps. In addition, we are close to being able to show the individual specs from the Sarin scan of each Amora - this would let us make a computer video showing *that exact stone* in spotlighting and office lighting. So that's another level of 'individual stone detail' that we hope to offer soon and take advantage of the fact we are the only manufacturer in the diamond alternative space running a Sarin HD scan on every single stone.

    We have some 5ct+ Amora Krupps in stock right now so maybe we'll start some real life videos with those even though I realize that's not the typical size, but on the flip side, you can see all the details more easily.

    For reference, here's a Krupps video from this Fall with sunlight:


    Anyway, thanks again for the feedback - we'll definitely be making much more of an effort to get more 'real life' photo and video done.

    Best regards,
    Less
     
  14. blushfiend

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    @Angel , the fact that you are so dedicated to EC means you REALLY love it! I think it's great taking your time looking and researching it so you know what to look for :) Your hubby must find it amusing lol. Mine says the same thing about me too, and he has to put up with me talking about it all the time. I have been looking into getting a GIA Gemologist course for fun, just because I love it so much.

    Thanks for sharing the photos and videos from your friend. I can't believe she has the patience to wait 6 years! It looks really pretty. That stone seems to be quite the fireball, which is absolutely gorgeous. But I am wondering if it's too firey, YKWIM? I am definitely curious and wondering if I should order the Krupps to view IRL since they recently restocked, even though I do prefer a skinny EC.

    Less, thanks for taking in our feedback and for sharing the videos - looking forward to more of the Krupps.
     
  15. Angel

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    @blushfiend I truly do love ECs! I too have thought about taking some courses in gemology and then even jewelry making/goldsmithing. Specifically engagement rings. I am a graphic designer and I have all these ideas for rings all of the time and I will then sketch it and lay it out on the comp.

    But anywhoo I am really interested in the Amora Krupps too! I think the stones are beautiful and very diamond like from what I have seen so far. I also think that if I got one and the cut, quality etc. stood out from what I have seen in these other moissanites, then I could get over the fact that the dimensions are more chunky than what I have been looking at. But I am only looking for about a 1.5-2 ct size and who knows when that will be available. I am still a little confused like if there is a waiting list or do they just notify you when that size is in stock? I filled out a couple of forms to be notified for different specs on the krupps and have been checking the site everyday. It looks like you can just purchase right away whatever they have available so maybe its just first come first serve? Not sure. A slightly warm stone does not bother me like maybe a GH. I actually like a little warmth but I would want a VVS or VS.

    Then there is the question of what would I get as side stones since I want a 3 stone EC. because lets face it getting ONE Amora Krupps with the desired specs seems a little out of reach anytime soon but 3 would be next to impossible. My insta friend that I shared decided to go with a 3 stone EC as well and she is using F1 side stones. From the photo it looks fine but I am not sure about it person.

    I am just going to wait and see what Less comes back with. Maybe he can give me a second recommendation. I just don't want to wait years. A few months is fine but not another year or longer.
     
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  16. Angel

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    Thoughts on the Harro Gem? They are from Canada. I wonder if they cut their own.

     
  17. blushfiend

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    @Angel , from what I remember, there was a waiting list long ago (people get first dibs), which was replaced by a notify me list (Currently on the BTD website), where they email you when an Amora that matches what you want is restocked. The latter is first come first serve, and this notification is about 5 to 10 minutes? after the items are restocked (I think Less mentioned it in the FAQ thread somewhere). So if you happen to be on the site right when it's restocked, before the email gets in, you could just put it in your cart and buy it.

    I have noticed delays in the Notify me list - I saw an Amora that matches my specs on the site some time back, but I wasn't notified till weeks later. Am wondering if they notify based on who signed up first to sort of give preference to people who have been waiting for longer, and go down this list over time to inform others if the stone is not bought.

    You are right, the wait is excruciating, especially since you need a 3 stone, and there's no custom ordering! In any case there's more vendors offering moiss these days so more options available.

    And a little eyecandy for the day: a large EC diamond in all its brilliance! ;)

     
  18. blushfiend

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    Looks like we posted at the same time! I saw it in person, under the jeweler's spotlights it is way more firey than a diamond, and the facets are a little too broad for my liking.

    Edit to add: I suspect most or all moiss (and Amora) will be more firey anyway, which is not a bad thing, depending on what you are going for!
     
  19. talk-admin

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    Hi all,
    Just to update things:
    1 - Heard back from chinese cutters. They are on the end of their Chinese New Year and so will get me pricing and photos early next week.

    2 - Will post out the Forever One Moissanite emerald review photos so you can see - symmetry defects, girdle polish defects and overall look (not good in middle).

    3 - Angel/Blushfiend - I'm impressed with the knowledge and research you both are doing, so if you are interested - email me via support page on our site and we could look at sending you an Krupps to view in person (and return) if you want to post feedback/review? We'll have to share shipping cost and a small deposit, but that would let you see and review a Krupps in person for a 2 or 3 days?

    4 - We have new rough completing soon and I'm going to see if we can finally do some smaller Krupps from this.

    Best regards,
    Less
     
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  20. Angel

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    Less, thanks so much! I’ll be waiting on your reply from the Chinese cutters! Are you going to post photos of the F1 on this post or somewhere else? I def want to check that out too! I also will send you an email soon about viewing a krupps. That would be very exciting! I’d love to see some smaller sizes come into stock too. Is there a pricing chart somewhere for the Krupps? I just wanted a general idea on what I’d be looking to spend in case I go that route. Thanks so much for your replies and help Less! It is much appreciated. I trust @blushfiend and your opinions and recommendations so I’m just going to wait to hear back from you and lay off my extensive research for the time being haha
     

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