Amora Gem - The FAQ thread

Discussion in 'Amora Gem Forum' started by talk-admin, Apr 15, 2012.

  1. MissPotato

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    Thank you Less for taking your time to explain to us. This certainly help to clear the doubts and frustration I'm facing and hopefully the rest as well. Offering the exchange was awesome too. Appreciate your efforts in your mission towards the best possible H&A! Nothing good comes easy, that is surely for us too......
     
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  2. ubtlav

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    Although I understand why people are frustrated but what happen to giving the benefit of the doubt before jumping to conclusions? Especially with a company that has been as transparent and upright as BTD from the start? I mean how often do we consumers get weekly/ monthly updates and our questions answered by the president of the company himself on a public forum with the option of being able to express our own opinions freely like we do here? Remember all those rules on the other forums?? With all that said though, WHERE'S MAH OEC??? ALL THIS WAITING IS UNACCEPTABLE!!!!!! :D:D:D:p J/k
     
    #882 ubtlav, Oct 2, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2016
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  3. mmascall

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    I want to chime in and add that previous versions of the AG are not "worthless" as someone posted.I have an AG Ultra that I love and whose performance compares very nicely to a couple of GIA XXX diamonds worn by my co-workers. I love looking at it - it has a most delicate pastel shimmer in certain lights that can be quite mesmerizing and I get regular compliments from my diamond connoisseur colleagues. I will not be selling it to upgrade to a newer and maybe/maybe not better version - but I will, once funds allow, be upgrading an Amora enhanced moissanite ring to an AG SH Eternity.

    If you love the gem you have and are happy with the performance and look, then enjoy it and don't worry about newer versions. While the AG SH Eternity has been optimized as much as possible for the foreseeable future, it is always possible that some new technology may come along that will allow further improvements to be made. All of these changes may only add small gains in looks and performance. I feel like it's easy to get trapped in the "newer is better" mentality and loose sight that we have something pretty special already.

    Diamonds too have minor differences in cut and performance - how many branded diamonds are out there? Each brand with a small variation in cut that may or may not make a difference to look/performance.

    Having said all of that, for some, "new and improved" is always better so, by all means, order an AG SH Eternity to see and compare with your "older" version but, if funds allow, why not just get a second set?! :D That way you don't have to choose :rolleyes:
     
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  4. eventer

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    While I'm glad that explanation makes some feel better, it really doesn't do much for me.

    When the ultras came out, those were supposed to be the best. Dell doesn't advertise that their currently available computers are the best that will ever be available. Obsolescence is planned in electronics development and I think this is a poor justification for changes in design for something that goes in jewelry - worn for years. When I bought the Ultra, there was no mention that there would be further design work or a new design coming out the following year. When I bought my stone last MONTH, there was no mention of researched improvements.

    The cut parameters for top light performance in round diamonds have been known for years. Someone who bought a round diamond last year would not find out this year that the cut had been improved. In fact, claims of such have rightfully annoyed customers who bought ideal cut stones from a particular vendor who is now advertising stones that are ostensibly better than what was sold as perfection. The situation there is the same, just with more $$ on the line since the stones are more expensive.

    As for those saying the Ultras hold their value, I've had one of mine listed for sale for over a year with only one inquiry. There is absolutely zero demand for the Ultras because there is something "better" and now I also own one of the "lesser" Soaring Hearts that was purchased two weeks ago. These aren't only my words, by the way. It's been stated that the reason there is no "upgrade" program from vendors of these stones is because there is no demand for the older stones and they won't sell.

    It's great that those of you who already own them, like them, but that's a lot of money to spend on something you can't resell even a year later AT ALL, never mind for 1/10 what you paid for it. People who already own them generally aren't the people looking to purchase one secondhand.

    I don't plan to purchase a SH Eternity, nor do I plan to incur the costs of unmounting the stone I did buy and paying another $150 to have the trade in stone set, if I were to take up on that offer. Mostly because the difficulty of acquiring one isn't worth the time and effort, and to date, the size I want hasn't existed (6mm).

    I've supported BTD to this point (obviously, since I now own three of their stones) and I like what I have. That really isn't the issue at all, and it's not just that "only the new thing is better" (and I sort of resent the implication with that phrase). It is objective fact that the Ultras have no resale value whatsoever. And now a brand new Soaring Hearts doesn't, either, because it isn't the "best" one.
     
    #884 eventer, Oct 3, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2016
  5. mmascall

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    The same resale issue is true for diamonds. While GIA XXX and AGS 0 and some branded pieces (Tiffany comes to mind) hold some of their value, even those will not fetch anywhere near what you paid new. The only jewellery that retains it's value and maybe even increases are those spectacular special pieces that cost in the tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars. I think that, for us mere mortals purchasing jewellery, it's best to keep in mind that there is no true value except the pleasure and joy it brings to the wearer.

    Gems (diamonds included) generally don't have much resale value. The metal, particularly gold and platinum is what is valuable. My SIL had a gorgeous wedding set from her second marriage (the appraisal valued it at near $25,000.) When that marriage ended and she tried to sell the set for half of it's appraised value she was stunned when she was offered $1400 for the 18k gold only. The jeweller happily pulled out the 1.05ct GIA J SI1 XXX diamond and melee stones and returned them to her keeping the gold only.

    The value I attribute to my AG Ultra is the pleasure I get when I wear it and look at it. While that may not be enough for some, it certainly appears to be the reality with most jewellery.

    Edited to correct appraised value of SIL rings - it was actually $14,500! She's here with me and corrected me :D Oh, and also, based on what she was eventually offered for the main diamond, she decided to keep it and had it made into a pendant.
     
    #885 mmascall, Oct 3, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2016
  6. eventer

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    I think you missed my point, but thanks for the insight.

    My point was - if I bought a diamond two weeks ago, the same vendor is pretty unlikely to suddenly offer a branded cut that is better than the one they sold me as "perfect" two weeks ago. A vendor who did just that is getting backlash from buyers, too.

    But because this isn't a diamond, we're supposed to accept that it's actually like a computer and it should be completely obsolete in a year, despite what anyone told us when we bought it. Even if that purchase was made two weeks ago, after the Eternity was in production. And I use the term "obsolete" here to mean "a branded product sold for the same price, with the same brand name, but is now being sold as better than what you were sold."

    My ultras are fine, though I wouldn't say that it gives me "pleasure and joy" to wear them - it's just a ring. But I do think it is pretty telling that now there is something "better," nobody wants those anymore.

    Also, I got 100% of what I paid for my diamond ring out of it when I resold it, so I do not believe that it is true that quality diamond pieces from known makers have low resale value at all.

     
    #886 eventer, Oct 3, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2016
  7. mmascall

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    WOW! 100% I'm impressed and incredulous all at the same time. Resale Cartier and Tiffany diamond solitaires can, without much difficulty, be found for half of the retail value so kudos to you for getting 100% for your ring!!

    ETA - and this includes boxes and all appropriate documentation.
     
  8. gemcat

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    Wow!! Getting 100% back on the resale of your diamond is incredible! For us mere mortals, that just doesn't happen. As for the whole "my stone is worthless now because something new is out there" I have a couple of thoughts. Define "worthless" for me.

    First: Silicon carbide is relatively new as a gemstone, and the software for computer modeling is even newer. The timeline Less told us about illustrated how fast new technology can change the game for cut in silicon carbide. Based on the properties of the rough and the state of the art in computing, the Eternity is the best that can be done in the foreseeable future. The basics of the ideal cut in diamonds have been around since the turn of the last century, but the super ideal, 000 cuts have been possible only since the technology to see/compare light return was invented. Are those older cut diamonds worthless? Hardly. Perhaps not as desirable as the 000 certed ones, but not worthless, either. It all depends on what the market wants and will pay for. Some folks like the light return in the Ultras better than the Soaring Hearts, other prefer the other way around. Same principle as diamonds.

    Second: Do you love your current stone, either the Ultra or the Soaring Hearts? Does it make your heart sing and your eyes happy? If that is the case, then the fact that the Eternity exists has no bearing on your enjoyment of your stone.
    If you are the sort that always has to have the latest, greatest, newest thing, then likely nothing will please you for long, be it silicon carbide or diamond. I have one of each of the previous Amoras, an Ultra and a Soaring Hearts. They are, to my eyes, slightly different in light play, but each is breathtaking in its own way. I may purchase an Eternity in the future, but if I do, it will be because I want the difference it provides, not because my current stones don't please me. None will be "worthless" in my eyes.
     
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  9. eventer

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    I think the Ultras are fine, but I have never believed that their performance equated to an ideal cut diamond at all. To me, they look more like a transitional stone. My small Ultra is a much better performer than the 1.72 that is in the center of my three stone. I don't know if the cut doesn't scale well, but the larger stone is not as attractive especially in indoor lighting. I'm sure to the lay bystander, it's very sparkly and pretty.

    So I guess you could say that no, they don't make my heart sing, though my SH is arriving today so I haven't seen it in person. However, I don't actually really like rounds in general and only purchased them because basically no other cuts were available. Additionally, I find it more difficult to be an Amora Gem buyer because many of the makers of top quality settings won't work with anything that's not a diamond or natural gemstone, which severely limits options.

    I would like to see an 8 main cushion or, in the absence thereof, the AVC that's been promised for 2 years now. Even though I know I won't be able to get a top of the line handforged setting for it.
     
  10. mmascall

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    Well, this has been an ongoing topic on these forums - just how diamond-like are these Ultras? IMHO, only a diamond performs exactly like a diamond and I also think that, sometimes, this is about a mind clean thing. There are minor differences between C and SiC performance and there should be - they are, after all, different materials with different properties.I would love to get to a point where the AG can be appreciated in its own right without comparison to diamonds because it is a very pretty stone!

    With respect to settings, I wouldn't say you are "severely" limited - there are wonderfully talented jewellers willing to work with the AG that can bring your dreams to life. Joseph Schubach jewellers, JHollywood designs and David Klass come to mind. I'm sure there are others but I'm more of an "off the rack" kind of purchaser so have never investigated these options.
     
  11. misslanalove

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    Please tell me what you think of the SH AG since I feel that your point of view is almost like mine. I have seen one D color from WINK earlier this year when I visited ID Boise. I thought it was "pretty" but I didn't blow me away like my e-ring main stone did. I probably would purchase one in the future as a cocktail ring, as the AG reminds me more of something I would wear as "extra" jewelry, night out in town. They did have AVC at one point, but that was for a very short period of time.
     
  12. eventer

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    I won't work with Schubach's because their pricing is insanely high for settings and in several interactions I've had with them, I would not call the service "personable." I know they have their many fans, but personal choice - I won't use them.

    Klass is definitely an option but he does cast settings and has become so popular that a ring from him is now a 2+ month lead time. Possible, but frustrating. So that is one option, though still not top of the line handforged.

    I would have a lot more respect for JHollywood if she posted any actual pictures of her jewelry on her etsy site, but many of the settings are obviously just standard cast settings from Stuller and the like and I have not seen anything on her instagram that would tell me otherwise. Halos that aren't fitted to the stone, chunky prongs, thick settings. It's too bad, because I think the Supernova line has potential, but it's basically selling the same thing as MoCo which isn't interesting to me at all.

    When I refer to top of the line settings I am referring to the likes of Victor Canera, Leon Mege, Steven Kirsch, Brilliantly Engaged, etc. None of them will work with a non-diamond stone.

    As for the comparison between the Amora Gem and diamonds - that is how the product is marketed, so it seems disingenuous to then want to separate the two as standalone items. The reason the Amora Gem is more expensive than F1 is because it's supposed to be more like a diamond. That's literally the selling point.
     
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  13. eventer

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    I plan to take a video of all three together, and hopefully I can get them to show well enough on the video.
     
  14. mmascall

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    I'm not involved in any way with BTD other than being a customer and BTD has not tried to market their product in any way other than as "better than diamond" - they are not, in this instance, being disingenuous as I am the one that stated it would be nice to stop the comparison and instead present the AG as something separate and different from a diamond.

    Well, sorry I couldn't be much help with jewellers - as I said I'm more of an "off the rack" kinda person.
     
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  15. KayMart11

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    I'm in a similar position in that my dream ring is forged by one of the "top of the line" benches you mentioned (Victor Canera in particular). I do not know his current policy, but I do know that he has in the past set an Amora Gem (the finished ring was posted on various boards - can't remember which at the moment). I can't speak to the other designers you mentioned, as I've never seen anyone post a piece from them using a silicon carbide stone. As far as I understand, the type of stones that Victor Canera outright refuses to work with are the branded modern "vintage-style" stones that compete directly with his antique cushion/european round line (i.e. GOG's August Vintage line, or Mege's True Antiques).

    I hope his policy hasn't changed, or that one ring wasn't an exception, because I'm dreaming of a Victor Canera tapered bullet 3-stone starring a new Amora Soaring Hearts Eternity (once BTD starts making stones in the 6mm range)...
     
    #895 KayMart11, Oct 3, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2016
  16. mmascall

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    Here is the DB link to the ring I think you're thinking of: 3.16 Ct Amora Gem Ultra Victor Canera Emilya : Amora Gem center stone and a picture:

    [​IMG]
     
  17. misslanalove

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  18. eventer

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    His policy has changed. He will only take outside stones (including diamonds and gemstones) on a case-by-case basis and only for some of his settings, depending on his workload and whatever other reasons.

    From his website:

    "Clients may supply their own center stones provided that A)We have available manufacturing capacity and time for pre-mount orders B)The design requested is available without a center stone (as a pre-mount) from our catalog. C)That a customer supplied diamond is insured against damage during manufacturing. Additionally, a setting fee for customer supplied diamonds will be incurred."
     
    #898 eventer, Oct 3, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2016
  19. KayMart11

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    Darn. I suppose I'll inquire (just in case) once I get a center stone with my desired specs, but I'm luckily also smitten with the work of a few other designers. Hopefully one of them will be less restrictive regarding the stones they'll set. Thank you for the updated information!
     
  20. gemcat

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    There are other designers out there that will work with Amora Gems, they are just not as well known. Wink has an outstanding design house, as does Jewels by Grace and LoveAffairDiamonds. You might like to contact them for information.
     
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