Cut Advancements and Upgrades

#1
Hello fellow AG fans and inquirers! I am new to this forum, so I apologize in advance if I repeat any previously published topics, although I tried to diligently do my research in advance. Like many before me, I spent countless hours sifting the internet and watching YouTube videos comparing all of the SiC/Moissanite diamond alternatives (for more than a year). As of right now, I've narrowed my search down to two, one of which is the Amora Gem Eternity Super Ideal H&A round (which is what I'll keep this forum topic focused on). I would like to purchase an Amora Gem in the near future, but still have a few questions that I am hoping this wonderful forum can help me answer.

I am huge fan of super ideal cuts. I've done my research on diamonds and am hoping it translates to diamond alternatives. I've noticed that for the most part, the various grading institutions are relatively in-line when it comes to color, clarity, and carat (not meant to start a debate), but they vary more so on cut and light performance scores. Obviously, each uses their own proprietary methods to grade cut, but in terms of the round brilliant H&A, the technology or human skill to create a super ideal diamond has been pretty much vetted through. In other words, a super ideal H&A diamond today should still theoretically be considered a super ideal diamond a decade from now.

I'm just not sure that is the case with the Amora Gem and other SiCs currently on the market. Why do I say this? The Amora Gem has evolved since it's inception, thanks to Less' fabulous Tiger robotic innovations. And I am afraid that if I purchase the Eternity today, a year from now, a new and more brilliant Amora Gem will hit the market, devaluing the one I would have purchased. And with no upgrade policies from any of the vendors (unlike diamond), I find it hard to commit. It's akin to buying an 1080p HD TV, knowing that a better 4K/UHD is in development (don't know what the latest TV tech is, sorry).

Furthermore, there are currently 200+ polytypes of SiC. And although only a handful are used for creating gems, new technological and laboratory advancements might lead to a whole new polytype with an atomic structure and band gaps that are consistently in the D-F colorless and VVS-IF clarity range. Obviously, I can't compare this to a diamond, which is only one polytype (may be mistaken), but how is buying a lab-created SiC different from buying a lab-created diamond besides the price point? I do not want to pass the SiC off as a diamond, but the AG and others are being marketed as diamond alternatives. And with DeBeers coming out with a new line (Lightbox) of inexpensive lab-created diamonds, I could theoretically snap up a 2ct diamond pendant for roughly $1600 and have it recut to ~ a 1.5ct super ideal diamond for not much more than a similar DWE AG.

But back to super ideal cuts...for those who own the Eternity AG, is the clustering by the arrow shafts under the table minimal? Are the hearts uniform with symmetrical Vs pointing toward the center? I've noticed that none of the AGs listed on BTD or other vendor websites provide the actual stone's Ideal/ASETscope images or copy of the grading report. The photos and reports are stock and provide no further insight on the actual gem's potential optical precision and light performance. I think I would have more confidence in buying the AG if these valuable visual assessment tools were provided like many reputable diamond sites do.

If you've managed to read this far without either falling asleep or getting frustrated with me, I would greatly appreciate your perspective.

Thank you!
 

talk-admin

Administrator
Staff member
#2
Hello fellow AG fans and inquirers! I am new to this forum, so I apologize in advance if I repeat any previously published topics, although I tried to diligently do my research in advance. Like many before me, I spent countless hours sifting the internet and watching YouTube videos comparing all of the SiC/Moissanite diamond alternatives (for more than a year). As of right now, I've narrowed my search down to two, one of which is the Amora Gem Eternity Super Ideal H&A round (which is what I'll keep this forum topic focused on). I would like to purchase an Amora Gem in the near future, but still have a few questions that I am hoping this wonderful forum can help me answer.

I am huge fan of super ideal cuts. I've done my research on diamonds and am hoping it translates to diamond alternatives. I've noticed that for the most part, the various grading institutions are relatively in-line when it comes to color, clarity, and carat (not meant to start a debate), but they vary more so on cut and light performance scores. Obviously, each uses their own proprietary methods to grade cut, but in terms of the round brilliant H&A, the technology or human skill to create a super ideal diamond has been pretty much vetted through. In other words, a super ideal H&A diamond today should still theoretically be considered a super ideal diamond a decade from now.

I'm just not sure that is the case with the Amora Gem and other SiCs currently on the market. Why do I say this? The Amora Gem has evolved since it's inception, thanks to Less' fabulous Tiger robotic innovations. And I am afraid that if I purchase the Eternity today, a year from now, a new and more brilliant Amora Gem will hit the market, devaluing the one I would have purchased. And with no upgrade policies from any of the vendors (unlike diamond), I find it hard to commit. It's akin to buying an 1080p HD TV, knowing that a better 4K/UHD is in development (don't know what the latest TV tech is, sorry).

Furthermore, there are currently 200+ polytypes of SiC. And although only a handful are used for creating gems, new technological and laboratory advancements might lead to a whole new polytype with an atomic structure and band gaps that are consistently in the D-F colorless and VVS-IF clarity range. Obviously, I can't compare this to a diamond, which is only one polytype (may be mistaken), but how is buying a lab-created SiC different from buying a lab-created diamond besides the price point? I do not want to pass the SiC off as a diamond, but the AG and others are being marketed as diamond alternatives. And with DeBeers coming out with a new line (Lightbox) of inexpensive lab-created diamonds, I could theoretically snap up a 2ct diamond pendant for roughly $1600 and have it recut to ~ a 1.5ct super ideal diamond for not much more than a similar DWE AG.

But back to super ideal cuts...for those who own the Eternity AG, is the clustering by the arrow shafts under the table minimal? Are the hearts uniform with symmetrical Vs pointing toward the center? I've noticed that none of the AGs listed on BTD or other vendor websites provide the actual stone's Ideal/ASETscope images or copy of the grading report. The photos and reports are stock and provide no further insight on the actual gem's potential optical precision and light performance. I think I would have more confidence in buying the AG if these valuable visual assessment tools were provided like many reputable diamond sites do.

If you've managed to read this far without either falling asleep or getting frustrated with me, I would greatly appreciate your perspective.

Thank you!
Hi KarDiam,
Thanks for your post and questions! Let me break out my reply to try and touch on each topic you have asked about.

1 - "I am afraid that if I purchase the Eternity today, a year from now, a new and more brilliant Amora Gem will hit the market, devaluing the one I would have purchased. "
Valid question - We did go through several years of rapid upgrades in many aspects as we gleaned additional info and improved our overall production processes (i.e. the nano-polish which maximized the fire/brilliance vs the rounded facets of initial Amora's and the current Charles and Colvard product with facets that look like they were press molded).
However, there's really nothing left to explore at this point - the facet edges can't get any sharper than diamond sharp for example. The surfaces can't get any smoother than nano-polished.
The cut has been researched since 2011, and there are only so many angles available to test and try.... we own the best software in the world for cut modeling (one of very few in the US, along with GIA) and have made use of it for several years. That modeling did result in further improvements but at this point, much like having diamond sharp facet edges...there isn't anything else to try and we've maximized it to the absolute pinnacle of fire/brilliance possible for the Amora H&A.

The Amora Super Ideal Eternity is now one year old exactly and we haven't touched anything and have no plans to do so as we are extremely confident that every nook and cranny has been explored, tested and verified.
We're not even doing anymore R&D on the round cut as it's proven pointless, so the Amora Super Ideal Eternity H&A is it, and basically rests at the pinnacle just like the H&A Diamond has been finalized for decades now.

Anyway, it's a great question but there is nothing in the works, planned or happening in terms of being able to improve the Eternity...it's the proven optimal winner.

2 - "Furthermore, there are currently 200+ polytypes of SiC. And although only a handful are used for creating gems, new technological and laboratory advancements might lead to a whole new polytype with an atomic structure and band gaps that are consistently in the D-F colorless and VVS-IF clarity range. "

The possible polytypes that could be gem quality are already known and have been extensively modeled - the reason is they are also excellent for use in electronics so high bandgap (colorless) crystals are heavily researched. The unknown polytypes that could show up in the future are extremely complex structures, and that results in much lower band gaps and thus not suitable for gems (or electronics).

Thus, this is definitely not a concern.

3 - "Obviously, I can't compare this to a diamond, which is only one polytype (may be mistaken), "
Technically it does have 500 or so other variations ( best known is Lonsdaleite - Wikipedia, or hexagonal diamond instead of cubic) and up to 500 are known (
"Around 500 hypothetical 3-periodic allotropes of carbon are known at the present time according to SACADA[1] database.") but these are super rare, so for all practical purposes diamond is it.

4 - "And with DeBeers coming out with a new line (Lightbox) of inexpensive lab-created diamonds, I could theoretically snap up a 2ct diamond pendant for roughly $1600 and have it recut to ~ a 1.5ct super ideal diamond for not much more than a similar DWE AG."
Enjoy your theoretical diamond as it will remain theory :) Here's why:
A - DeBeers is not producing larger than 1ct for this. One key reason (beyond business strategy of not threatening their main profit center of 1ct+ mined diamonds) is diamond growth slows down exponentially at around the 1ct mark b/c you are growing in 3 dimensions...example if you could grow a 1ct in 2 days or so, it can take up to 6- 8 days to get to 2ct (i.e. 3-4x longer, not 2x)...so it's not a linear growth path but an exponential one. Thus, cost goes up dramatically.
You could shorten this if you can start with larger seeds, but larger seeds are also...exponentially more expensive.
Anyway, there's a reason they are cutting off at 1ct size and it's due to technical and cost constraints.
So they aren't offering 2ct's for sale that you could recut.

B - Secondly, diamond cutters that can cut to Super Ideal standard are few and not cheap...so I doubt that you could do it even assuming you had a 2ct to recut (which as noted, will not be available).

C - Finally, no one knows what the color or clarity of the lightbox whites will be. Diamond Foundry has a lot of lab grown diamonds but most are all I-K color and haven't seen any IF...not exciting imo. DeBeers also said they will not be offering these as graded diamonds and will not grade them...they consider them "all the same, artificial".

<< continues next post >>
 

talk-admin

Administrator
Staff member
#3
5- "But back to super ideal cuts...for those who own the Eternity AG, is the clustering by the arrow shafts under the table minimal? Are the hearts uniform with symmetrical Vs pointing toward the center? I've noticed that none of the AGs listed on BTD or other vendor websites provide the actual stone's Ideal/ASETscope images or copy of the grading report. The photos and reports are stock and provide no further insight on the actual gem's potential optical precision and light performance. I think I would have more confidence in buying the AG if these valuable visual assessment tools were provided like many reputable diamond sites do."

The Amora Eternity's are basically clones because of the Super Ideal precision cutting. This concept seems to remain hard to understand b/c so many diamond and moissanite vendors that don't cut to this level of precision will have all kinds of variance and thus every one has varying beauty.
But since I personally inspect many of the Sarin results I can tell you they are clones through and through.

Here is an actual IdealScope image for you:

As you can see there is no clustering around the shafts per your question.


As I posted in the other thread, to our knowledge we are the only diamond alternative that cuts using a SarinHD system to verify each and every facet angle. If any other vendor can cut to this precision, I'd love to see it.

Here's an ideal scope of an actual "H&A" Forever One by way of comparison :



Also, regarding your question about why not post the IdealScope images for every stone - mostly a cost function. We are selling at an average of $525/ct. H&A diamonds sell at $6,000/ct++? We simply can't do all the things that a product selling at 10-20x can b/c the absolute profit dollars are not there. As it is, we've had to work super hard to be able to get to this level of cutting precision while still staying in business and if I had it to do over again, I wouldn't have done it b/c the financial payoff from other options would have been much, much greater (pull up Nvidia stock chart for example).

But I am extremely proud of what we have achieved with the Eternity regardless. I do believe we achieved the vision of producing the "Ultimate Gem".

Hope that addresses your questions!
Best regards,
Less
 
#4
Less,

You have answered all of my questions fabulously. I love technical details that can be validated by factual evidence (and not just a marketing ploy). Also, glad to hear that the Eternity is the pinnacle of Amora Gem cuts. You have re-instilled my confidence in the Amora Gem. Now I just need to order one so that your vision can remain profitable and in business.

For super ideal diamonds, I’ve read that even lower color grades will face up white. Does this hold try for the AG, too? I am color sensitive, so just trying to find the right balance of color, size, and clarity to fit my budget. Ideally looking for an eye-clean (and not obstruct light performance) 1-1.2 ct (I have tiny hands).

Thank you again!
 
#5
Since the Amora Gem is “rarer” than diamond, would it be overkill for me to double down on the rarity aspect and get a D-IF? I found an online retailer in Europe that has one in stock in my preferred size, but I’m not sure if I’d have to pay import fees, etc.

Also, for insurance purposes, should I have the ring and stone appraised by the vendor I purchased from or send it to an independent appraiser/another AG authorized retailer? And to avoid the insurer from categorizing the AG as a generic moissanite, should the appraiser identify the AG’s proprietary SiC polytype and/or branded cut? I’ve heard Jeweler’s Mutual is good for diamond e-rings. Any other insurer recommendations specific to the AG? May sound trivial, but this will play into where I ultimately buy the stone/ring. Want to avoid unnecessary headaches. Thanks!
 
#6
Also, for insurance purposes, should I have the ring and stone appraised by the vendor I purchased from or send it to an independent appraiser/another AG authorized retailer? And to avoid the insurer from categorizing the AG as a generic moissanite, should the appraiser identify the AG’s proprietary SiC polytype and/or branded cut? I’ve heard Jeweler’s Mutual is good for diamond e-rings. Any other insurer recommendations specific to the AG? May sound trivial, but this will play into where I ultimately buy the stone/ring. Want to avoid unnecessary headaches. Thanks!
I'm also interested in this question of appraisal and insurance. We'll be using a Phoenix EC Moissanite in my e-ring and not an Amora at this time, so considerations may not be the same since the Phoenix moissy doesn't come with certification. But I still wonder how the overall appraisal/value is generally handled for moissanite through places like Jeweler's Mutual or Gemshield, especially if you didn't purchase the stone directly through the jeweler. If this is a dumb question -- apologies -- I'm new to all of this!
 

talk-admin

Administrator
Staff member
#7
I'm also interested in this question of appraisal and insurance. We'll be using a Phoenix EC Moissanite in my e-ring and not an Amora at this time, so considerations may not be the same since the Phoenix moissy doesn't come with certification. But I still wonder how the overall appraisal/value is generally handled for moissanite through places like Jeweler's Mutual or Gemshield, especially if you didn't purchase the stone directly through the jeweler. If this is a dumb question -- apologies -- I'm new to all of this!
Hi SMurley,
Normally the insurance really boils down to you showing an invoice for what you paid...they really don't get too deep into the specifics, so I wouldn't worry about it too much. In general, you can just purchase what you are after and then when you add to your insurance just show the invoice and they'll add the relevant coverage.

Hope that helps,
Less
 
#8
Less,

Are you referring to homeowners/renters insurance or jewelry insurance? I was under the impression that they operated slightly differently. If homeowners does a sufficient job covering, why do people purchase a separate jewelry insurance? Thanks!
 

talk-admin

Administrator
Staff member
#9
Less,

Are you referring to homeowners/renters insurance or jewelry insurance? I was under the impression that they operated slightly differently. If homeowners does a sufficient job covering, why do people purchase a separate jewelry insurance? Thanks!
Hi KarDiam,
Almost all insurance will accept a receipt and cert for proof of cost/value and thus insurance - assuming they cover jewelry.
Re: homeowners insurance - policies vary - some have blanket coverage, others expressly exclude high value items like jewelry...which is what creates the opening for jewelry insurance specifically.

But to be clear, I'm only offering general advice based on our experience. Ultimately you have to check with your specific insurer to verify things.

Hope that helps :)
Less
 
#10
My homeowners insurance has coverage limit to jewelry. If you have multiple jewelries, total $ amount of all the jewelries may exceed the insurance coverage limit.
 
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